Epistemic Angst

Sunday, January 07, 2007

עֵדָה

The word עֵדָה appears 110 times in chumash, all of which are in P. The occurrences are as follows:

Ex. (12:3) (12:6) (12:19) (12:47) (16:1) (16:2) (16:9) (16:10) (16:22) (17:1) (33:31) (35:1) (35:4) (35:20) (38:25)

Lev (4:13) (4:15) (8:3) (8:4) (8:5) (9:5) (10:6) (10:17) (16:5) (19:2) (24:14) (24:16)

Nu. (1:2) (1:16) (1:18) (1:53) (3:7) (4:34) (8:9) (8:20) (10:2) (10:3) (13:26) (14:1) (14:2) (14:5) (14:7) (14:10) (14:27) (14:35) (14:36) (15:24 x 2) (15:25) (15:26) (15:33) (15:35) (15:36) (16:2) (16:3) (16:5) (16:6) (16:9 x 2) (16:11) (16:16) (16:19 x 2) (16:21) (16:22) (16:24) (16:26) (17:5) (17:6) (17:7) (17:10) (17:11) (19:9) (20:1) (20:2) (20:8 x 2) (20:11) (20:22) (20:27) (20:29) (25:6) (25:7) (26:2) (26:9) (26:10) (27:2) (27:3 x 2) (27:14) (27:16) (27:17) (27:19) (27:20) (27:21) (27:22) (31:12) (31:13) (31:16) (31:26) (31:27) (31:43) (32:2) (32:4) (35:12) (35:24) (35:25 x 2).

One possible retort to this is that somehow the P verses are thematically connected to the word עֵדָה. The problem with this is that this word is generally used in the stories about the nation of Israel in the desert. There are such stories in all of P, JE, & D, yet the word עֵדָה only comes up in the P stories. One would have to invent some sort of distinction between two types of such stories, in which the nation assumes different names, but such distinctions are very thin and stand dangerously close to just reformulating the P/JE/D distinction but just in traditional words (e.g. Moshe didn’t like the word עֵדָה and it’s thus not used in Devorim)

Another possible retort is the circular reasoning argument: passages are assigned to P on the basis of the word עֵדָה. This, in turn, is in reality two arguments. Firstly, once could argue that the P passages are assigned to P on the grounds of the word עֵדָה. Secondly there are some passages, such as the M’raglim or Korach, that are thought to be composite. Perhaps, one might argue that the P verses in those passages are assigned to P on the grounds of the word עֵדָה. To the first point, I would reply that most of the time there is much, much evidence to assign a passage to P, and even without the word עֵדָה, we would not change our mind. Moreover, this answer does nothing to explain the P vs D divide. To the second, I say, again, this does not explain the P vs. D divide, it does not explain the whole passages that are assigned entirely to P or JE, and, even in cases of composite passages, such as the spies, the passages assigned to P are generally so assigned for several reasons, not just the word עֵדָה. Finally, even if one feels that P passages are assigned to P solely on the basis of this word, its ubiquitiesness in some passages and disappearance in others is itself suspicious. For example, Nu. 14:11-25 is part of the JE account of the spies. One may argue that we have only so assigned it on the basis of the word עֵדָה not appearing therein, which would be wrong, but even if it were so, the lack of the word עֵדָה in this passage, coming in the midst of a story where the word is heavily utilized is itself suspicious.

10 Comments:

Blogger Rabbi Joshua Maroof said...

It would be helpful if you could provide some examples of situations in D and JE in which Edah could have been used, but a substitute term was used instead. And what term is actually used in place of Edah in JE and D? Am? Qahal?

These details would allow for a more thorough analysis of the data here.

1/07/2007 12:53 PM

 
Blogger littlefoxlings said...

RJM,

An excellent point. I’ll respond in 4 levels of detail:
1. A complete dissection of the entire Pentateuch passage by passage, which I am in the midst of doing on my side bar and will continue with and will probably not finish for several years.

2. Because of the issue you raise, I’ll do another post some time in the next few weeks about other ways to refer to the Israelis besides Eidah. I'll try to highlight words used only by JE and D but not P.

3. I’ll do a few brief examples now of JE passages that don’t use the word Eidah. One is already in the post itself. Here are a few more:

A. Numbers 10:29 – 12:16 is JE. I’ve gone through the first section of it (till 11:18) and displayed different ways the nation is referred to.
Israel 10:29 10:36 11:16
Am 11:1 11:2 11:8 11:10 11:11 11:12 11:13 11:14 11:16 11:17 11:18
Bnei Israel 11:4

B. Numbers 22:2-24:5 is JE. Again, I’ve gone through the fist several verses (through 22:17) and looked at the way the nation is referred to.

Israel 22:2
Am 22:3 22:5 22:6 22:11 22:17
Bnei Israel 22:3
Kahal 22:4

4. I’ll note that it is not necessary to even have alternatives being used by the other sources. I presume your answer will be something along the lines of arguing that the function of the word Eidah is slightly different than the 4 words I have above. I’ll wait to respond to the specific distinction you will offer till you offer it, but in any case, in addition to explaining why the word Eidah is less appropriate in the examples I listed above, you would also need to explain, why, coincidently, cases where the word Eidah are appropriate do not appear outside of the P source. Anyway, I guess I am getting ahead of myself here. I should wait to respond till I hear exactly what distinction you will offer.

1/07/2007 1:19 PM

 
Blogger Rabbi Joshua Maroof said...

I presume your answer will be something along the lines of arguing that the function of the word Eidah is slightly different than the 4 words I have above.

I'm not sure yet...I haven't had any time to look through the examples, and I try to keep an open mind and not rush to preconceived conclusions.

I’ll wait to respond to the specific distinction you will offer till you offer it, but in any case, in addition to explaining why the word Eidah is less appropriate in the examples I listed above, you would also need to explain, why, coincidently, cases where the word Eidah are appropriate do not appear outside of the P source.

Fair enough. Except we are treading dangerously close to the circularity issue here. If in every case we were able to answer the "keyword" issue, would we still have to answer why the keywords appear only in a particular source? Clearly not. But at the present time, since this is only the first word we are examining out of many that characterize P, your requirement is a fair one.

1/07/2007 1:29 PM

 
Blogger littlefoxlings said...

Except we are treading dangerously close to the circularity issue here.

Yes. The problem is that the circularity issue can not really be addressed on a word by word basis but needs to be addressed as a global issue. I still owe you a post on that point, and it’s sitting on my to-post list, along with P words for BHB, other ways to refer to the Israelis for you, and vorts on the parsha for other readers who requested that.

1/07/2007 1:35 PM

 
Blogger Rabbi Joshua Maroof said...

The problem is that the circularity issue can not really be addressed on a word by word basis but needs to be addressed as a global issue.

Agreed 100%

1/07/2007 1:40 PM

 
Blogger Baal Habos said...

LF, nothing on the Parsha this week?

1/10/2007 2:57 PM

 
Blogger littlefoxlings said...

Given the post frequency I would like to maintain and the wide range of topics I would like to cover (words, the parsha, non DH issues), I do not think it will be possible to do a parsha post every week. This week, I owe RJM a post about other ways to refer to the Jews besides Eidah and I also have a non DH issue I wanted to post about. Though, I guess those could wait for the parsha.

What do you think?

1/10/2007 3:16 PM

 
Blogger littlefoxlings said...

Another point is that I am currently weighing the advisability of the parsha approach. Some reader requested it strongly, saying they desired to gain deeper insights into laining. Others though, said they were against it, because it does not allow an idea to be properly developed since every week you are on another topic.

1/10/2007 3:54 PM

 
Blogger Baal Habos said...

LF, my personal preference is the Parsha, but I imagine that must be very tough. Maybe you could do the Parsha every N weeks as time permits.

REF has a table where he breaks down a the Torah Topics by J,E,P,D,R stating which part belongs to each, but I find that as peck & hunt.



What i'd like to do is put together a chart of Pesukim in order and mark each one with the purported author.

I.e.

Breishis 1: 1-5 is X
1: 2-20 is y
,etc.

Do you if something like that is available on-line?

1/10/2007 5:02 PM

 
Blogger littlefoxlings said...

Maybe you could do the Parsha every N weeks as time permits.


Yes, I was thinking every other week or so, depending on what else I want to post about and if the parsha happens to connect to the topic I am dealing with (which I will try to accommodate by doing sh’mos issues while we read sh’mos, vayikrah during vayikra etc.

What i'd like to do is put together a chart of Pesukim in order and mark each one with the purported author.

I don’t know if that exists are not. You can get some of it on my side bar. I plan to put up all of chumash there, but obviously am not done yet.

1/10/2007 5:21 PM

 

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